Hi John,

Just a quick update on some recent enhancements.

1) Difficulty in snapping symbols to the grid.  This was a problem with symbols created using the Symbols Wizard.  The Symbol Wizard has now been updated so that if, at any point in the future, the symbol is moved off the grid, the bottom left corner can be aligned to the grid using Arrange | Align (or the Align button) and selecting Left and Bottom - the I/O stubs will then sit exactly on gridpoints.

2) Document panning during drag - if you drag an object close to the edge of the document window, the document will pan.  The 'hot zone' for panning is the 10 pixels around the edge of the document window, inside the scrollbars, below the toolbars and to the right of the Library List.  Note that if you drag beyond the extents of the document window the panning will stop since Stardraw supports Object Linking and Embedding (OLE) and for this you need to be able to drag an object out of Stardraw and into another application.

3) We have added the Order submenu to the rightclick context sensitive menu so you can, for example, select an object, rightclick and select Order | Send to Back.

You can install the new version that includes these enhancements plus some features requested by other usres at www.stardraw.com - follow a link to the application you use and then select LiveUpdate from the QuickLinks menu on the left.

Kind regards,
Rob Robinson
Stardraw.com

Hi John,

Thank you for your detailed post; this is exactly the sort of feedback we like to receive as it guides future development and also indicates where existing features are not as well understood as they should be.  In answer to your points in order;

 

1) Trim feature - it sounds like the main requirement is to be able to generate files that show detail in an existing drawing and can be printed by third parties.  Would it be an acceptable solution to copy a rectangular selection that trims objects that cross its boundary (like Print Area) and paste the selection into a new drawing, to which you can add a title block, annotations etc, and save and print?

 

2) Grab the document and move it around - grabbing and dragging a document is high on our list of desired features and this will be available in an upcoming version.  Having said this, however, there are already many zoom/pan shortcuts which go a long way to providing a solution, for example:

• Mousewheel - zoom in/out
• Shift+Mousewheel - pan vertically
• Ctrl+Shift+Mousewheel - pan horizontally

All the above work during drawing actions so you can, for example, zoom in, begin a Dogleg, zoom out, pan, zoom in, pan some more, and finish the Dogleg.

 

3) Why do some wires stick to the input/outputs and some don't?  Especially why not when I use the symbol wizard?  - Please check that you are using the current version by performing a LiveUpdate at  http://www.stardraw.com/products/stardrawav/LiveUpdateLang.asp .  A bug was identified some time ago which meant that the Symbol Wizard sometimes failed to add connection points to symbols created within the document.  This is never an issue if the symbol has been dragged into the document from the Library List.  As to why some connections do not ‘stick’ I can only suggest that the Cable / Dogleg objects you are drawing do not go to the point where the I/O stub meets the rectangular outline of the symbol, which is where the connection point resides.  If you have a sample drawing that shows the problem please post it to the forum or email it to techsuppport@stardraw.com – we’ll be happy to check it out.  I suspect the copy/paste issue is related since pasted connected symbols do retain connections.

 

4) I/O labels in the symbol wizard – you can use the keyboard exclusively: i) type in your label, ii) use Tab to move focus to the list of I/Os and use up/down arrow to select the I/O you want to label, iii) Shift+Tab to return focus to the editbox and go to (i).  Repeat as necessary.  However, I agree that there could be a better keyboard interface and we will explore possible solutions.

 

5) Why does a right-click not disable or cancel a drawing?  Why not a second right click go to arrow tool? – Use Escape.

 

6) Re-positioning a symbol onto gridpoints – this works fine for Stardraw-generated symbols from the Library List; select Align (the Align command functions as Align to Grid when one object is selected) and choose Left, Bottom.  It looks like a modification is required to symbols created using the Symbol Wizard to offer similar functionality.  This is planned for an upcoming update.

 

7) Copying – rather than using Ctrl+V, use the dynamic copy function.  Hold down the Ctrl key, pick up your selection and drop the copy wherever you want.

 

8) Dragging an object beyond the visible area of the screen – we will add the ability to dynamically pan when you drag an object towards the margin of the document window.

 

9) A right click context menu option for send to front/back would be nice – agreed.  We will add this in the next update (and possibly Align to Grid as well).  In the meantime you can use Fastkeys:

• Ctrl+Shift+F – move to front
• Ctrl+Shift+B – move to back
• Ctrl+F – move forward
• Ctrl+B – move back

10) Incentivizing manufacturers – it’s interesting you take this view.  Our competitors generally charge manufacturers to be represented in software.  We on the other hand do not charge manufacturers a penny.  Additionally we do all the drafting work in-house (and have invested around 40 man years doing so), and we offer discounted software.  All the manufacturer has to do is gives us whatever data they have. 

The real problem is that manufacturers are in the business of manufacturing and selling volumes of product.  Anything not directly related to this activity falls low on their list of priorities, and there’s not much we can do about that.  However, as a manufacturer’s customer, you actually have more leverage than us since you represent revenue, whereas participation in Stardraw’s libraries is (mistakenly) perceived by manufacturers solely as a cost.  You can appeal to the manufacturer’s channel: next time you see your rep for manufacturer X say “You know, the fact that manufacturer X isn’t in Stardraw causes me a lot of hassle.  It makes much more sense for me to use manufacturer Y instead.  But thanks for stopping by.”

 

John – again, thank you for your feedback.  Thanks to this post we have identified at least half a dozen items which will be enhanced in a future update and will go a long way to improving the interface for everybody.  Please let us know if you have any other comments or suggestions.

 

Kind regards

 

Rob Robinson

Kind regards,
Rob Robinson
Stardraw.com

The main thing with the trim feature is to be able to pull out zones of connections.  When plotting a system even on Arch E sized paper it is very hard to get enough detail to be useful.  So we plot an unreadable overview page and then go back and plot each zone of the system.  Example: a recent job had the following zones: Conference table, Ceiling, Conference room junction box 1, 2, 3, 4, and AV Rack.  I can understand what you say with double plotting the border, but since I don't have an ARCH E sized printer, I pay by the page at the local print shop and that count's 2.  Also, if we're printing off several sets that can be very tedious.  I have better luck exporting to DXF and then pulling up ACAD and doing it all in there.  The point is if I have to use ACAD everytime anyway then what am I using Stardraw for...? 

Also there are some weird limitations in the drawing interface. 

I would like mouse 3 to grab the document and move it around.  The zoom in out is clumsy, the auto scroll takes foreverand using the tool bars is not effective if I am drawing a wire.  A hot key that would allow that would be OK too, but why not mouse 3?

Why do some wires stick to the input/outputs and some don't?  Especially why not when I use the symbol wizard?  Copy and paste of I/O into and out of a drawing will not stick when the entire drawing is moved later.  There needs to be a quicker and easier way to add inputs and outputs because often pre done symbols don't have accurate I/O.

I/O labels in the symbol wizard are a royal pain to do because it requires click, highlight, type, click, highlight, type, etc for each label instead of an easy <tab> to the next label.  Taking a hand off the keyboard to mouse click and highlight, then back to the keyboard to type for each label is very tedious and slow.

Why does a right-click not disable or cancel a drawing?  Why not a second right click go to arrow tool?

If you don't start with nodes aligned with the grid then the snap to grid will never line it up to the grid points.  There needs to be a way to take a corner, an I/O stub, or some other part of the drawing and have it snap perfectly to the nearest grid point.  Otherwise you get periodic jaggies in the wire lines.

Copy and paste always pastes next to the copied object.  If you want to paste to a far away spot on the drawing you cannot paste to viewable area.  There needs to be an overide to the default paste location that should be as easy as clicking on the screen before hitting Ctrl-V or right click context menu paste to location of click.

You cannot drag an object beyond the visible area of the screen.  If you use the arrow keys it will travel off the edge of the screen without moving the visible area.  you have to zoom out, move roughly, zoom back in, move to final position.  Which in the context of the previous gripe is really slow, clumsy, and tedious.

A right click context menu option for send to front/back would be nice.

Mostly the problems we have are with what is a difficult and clumsy interface.  The latency of getting requested drawings is aggravating but understandable since it relies mostly on other companies.  Having spoke with those other companies though, they have said that the benefits of providing the drawings to Stardraw is minimal.  As I understand it all that is given is a half-price copy of the software to offset the time/energy/expense of getting all of the products drawn up.  I think that a little more incentive would be a good idea.  Also a focus on making the symbol wizard as easy as possible would offset that problem greatly.  Nearly half of any projects symbols end up starting there.  More timely help would also be appreciated.  Just my two cents (plus the $2500 I spent on the software and $500/year I've spent on the update subscription).

jc

Auburn Audio

Hi John,

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the failure to reply to your earlier post - you're right, it is unacceptable, but occasionally, very occasionally, we, like all people, make a mistake, miss a message or otherwise drop the ball.  Mea culpa.

In answer to your original post, there is not currently a Trim feature á la AutoCAD within Stardraw, but it would seem that you are looking for solutions for two different problems.

1) Printing a detail - you can use File | Print Area to define an area to print.  Stardraw does not have the twin concepts of WorldSpace and PaperSpace that you may be familiar with, but using Print Area will go a long way to solving this problem - you can print out a selected area and, to put it into a drawing border, simply pre-print the border and position the Print Area using margins in File | Page Setup.

2) Trimming objects in the drawing - we'd like to understand more about what you would expect to happen when you trim objects to other objects (like a line or rectangle).  What do you want to trim?  Lines, doglegs, polygons, text, symbols?  When do you find that you need this sort of functionality - in Blocks, Racks, Pictorials, Panels?  Do you need to trim to irregular shapes, curves etc?  If you can let us know in some detail, or show examples of, what you seek, we will then be able to understand the requirement and factor it into ongoing development.

Again, apologies for the fact that we missed your earlier post.  I hope that the above is of some use and look forward to hearing back regarding the exact functionality you need.

Kind regards

Rob Robinson

Kind regards,
Rob Robinson
Stardraw.com

This is why I would discourage anyone from investing in this program.  I posted for help two months ago, and not even a response from a Stardraw employee.  Bottom line, they don't care about this program or the customers who have invested significant time and energy into acquiring it or learning it. 

jc

Auburn Audio